factory "modified" 400BB

[PaleBlue90]

so a buddy of mine got a 79 f350 2wd 400BB and a 4 speed from a guy who owed him money, he wants 800 for it beacuse he owes me money. the floors are soilid,the rockers are solid. its a 4speed with a factory modified 400BB. from what ive been able to find is that means its got the same block as a 351C right? its just bored and stroked from the factory. correct? this truck has some dents, and the only rust is on the right side on the door that holds the spare tire in. im told that is a rare option along with the tool box built into the right side inside the bed. what are the best mods, bang for the buck? whats this bad boy worth? it needs a few small things, a good tune up and thats it. it has 57K miles on it. it has sat in a guys back yard since 84:eek: i primed the carb, put a battery in pumped the carb twice and it started right up:D

[bronc_17113]

Nothing modified about it. Sounds like a 400 ci m block motor. Probablly a camper special based on the options described. I would say 600 - 1000 in value from your description.

[PaleBlue90]

Nothing modified about it. Sounds like a 400 ci m block motor. Probablly a camper special based on the options described. I would say 600 - 1000 in value from your description.

i figured id get a 2nd opinion. i asked one of the parts guys at mike naughton ford and thats what he told me. anywho, if i cant buy it ill post it up for sale here for him. i drove it and i like it alot:D

any ideas i can do besides a tune up? my plans were (if i get it) to a 4bbl intake,4bbl edelbrock carb,headers,new exaust, new dizz/coil and a cam.

the build sheet says its a sterling rear with 4.11's and a posi:eek:

[Burg460]

If you get that truck it is going to be an odd ball if you ever need parts from the cab back. Those have an extended wheel base and the rear tires sit further towards the back of the truck so it has to have its own special bed. Beds from half tons and three quarter tons will not work on it. The 400 was build off the cleveland engine, it has a taller deck height on it. Almost everything will interchange with a 351c other then push rods and intake manifolds. I have noticed those trucks don't seem to rust as fast or as bad as the others from that era. As for the rear end, I would think it would be a dana 60 or 70 as I don't think the sterling was even available yet but I could be wrong..

If you look in Ft. Collins craigslist there is one for sale that the guy has been trying to get rid of for months. He started his price at $5,000 and is down to $3,500. In my eyes, its probably worth around $800-1,000 in my eyes as well.

Heres the link:
http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/cto/1506650571.html

[PaleBlue90]

yea thats what this one looks like. execpt mine was all white, it needs body work and paint. maybe some other work. its not bad at all. ill try and get pics of it asap

[bronc_17113]

im sorry ryan u and I are going to disagree on the 400 being built off the 351c everything I have ever read says 351 m :D I do agree the d60 or 70 is FAR more likelly in that truck

[Hunter]

That truck will have a Dana 70 in it.

I agree with Don. They have the 351 and 400 both stand alone motors , same bell housing with the 460.

[PaleBlue90]

thanks guys, anything i should be looking for as far as issues with this thing?

[Burg460]

I guess I wasn't specific enough, they are all 335 series which is like the same platform/design. I do know the cleveland came out before the modified. :D

Here's a little article I found for ya'll's too.

Because Ford built a lot of mid and full-sized cars, pickups and SUVs, Cleveland engines also had to perform draught service. This was handled by the 400 and 351M versions. Ultimately, the 351C was produced until 1974, 400 production started in 1971 and ended in 1981, while 351M production started in 1975 and ended in 1985. Like other Ford engines of the era, they bore the brunt of emissions and economy regulations with truly low compression ratios and camshafts that were installed retarded.

Ford needed a small-block torque engine, so they developed the 400. The displacement was the result of increasing the stroke from 3.50 to 4.00 inches. Later, for mileage considerations, the 351M (M for modified), was introduced and it retained the 3.50-inch stroke. Compared to the 351C, the 351M-400 had two major differences: the 1.091-inch taller deck height, and the crank had 3-inch diameter main journals. These engines were not high horsepower, high rpm engines like their old Boss 351 cousin.

[Glass]

Pale, the 351c is its own block ,own crank, own rods, own intake manifold.

The 351M and the 400 share the same block, connecting rods, heads (same heads as the 351c if 2bbl heads). The 351M / 400 block is taller than a 351c block, and subsequent to the taller block, the engine is also slightly wider than the 351c. The 351M uses a 3.500" stroke and a 4.000" bore from the factory. The 400 uses a 4.00" stroke, and a 4.00" bore from the factory. The connecting rods are the same for the 351M and the 400 , the difference in compression height is made with different pistons. The 351M and 400 use DIFFERENT PISTONS. The 351M / 400 share pushrods and rockers. In all essence, the 400 is a factory stroked 351M.

The 351c - 351m / 400 share distributors, heads, camshafts, lifters, timing chains and gears,rockers, water pumps, timing covers, intake GASKETS (2bbl heads only), exhaust gaskets (2bbl heads only), oil pan gasket, & valve covers.

A 351c intake can be used on a 351M / 400 with a set of intake manifold spacers, but a 351M / 400 intake cannot be used on a 351C.

Hope that helps clear the air a little bit??

[PaleBlue90]

Pale, the 351c is its own block ,own crank, own rods, own intake manifold.

The 351M and the 400 share the same block, connecting rods, heads (same heads as the 351c if 2bbl heads). The 351M / 400 block is taller than a 351c block, and subsequent to the taller block, the engine is also slightly wider than the 351c. The 351M uses a 3.500" stroke and a 4.000" bore from the factory. The 400 uses a 4.00" stroke, and a 4.00" bore from the factory. The connecting rods are the same for the 351M and the 400 , the difference in compression height is made with different pistons. The 351M and 400 use DIFFERENT PISTONS. The 351M / 400 share pushrods and rockers. In all essence, the 400 is a factory stroked 351M.

The 351c - 351m / 400 share distributors, heads, camshafts, lifters, timing chains and gears,rockers, water pumps, timing covers, intake GASKETS (2bbl heads only), exhaust gaskets (2bbl heads only), oil pan gasket, & valve covers.

A 351c intake can be used on a 351M / 400 with a set of intake manifold spacers, but a 351M / 400 intake cannot be used on a 351C.

Hope that helps clear the air a little bit??

that clears things up alot lol. it still has a 2bbl on it. like i said, if i get it id like to do a 4bbl intake,4bbl carb,headers,exaust,and mild cam. for now:thumbsup:

[Glass]

As far as best mods bang for buck wise....

4bbl intake manifold with the 4 bbl carb of your choice that is between 620 and 650 CFM, matched with an exhaust setup that is less restrictive than stock, but still maintains some back pressure (not a huge exhaust). A cheap RV or Torque camshaft and lifters, and a timing chain and gear set that will let you choose between -4 0 +4 degrees of camshaft timing. Choose 0, or straight up for best comprimise between TQ and HP, and most comfortable idle..

If you were willing to spend about 2k-2500, you could build an engine for it that COULD put you close to 300hp and 500 ft lbs with the right tune up.

[Glass]

I did forget to mention that the same distributor is used for the 460, 429, 400, 351m, and 351c.

[PaleBlue90]

As far as best mods bang for buck wise....

4bbl intake manifold with the 4 bbl carb of your choice that is between 620 and 650 CFM, matched with an exhaust setup that is less restrictive than stock, but still maintains some back pressure (not a huge exhaust). A cheap RV or Torque camshaft and lifters, and a timing chain and gear set that will let you choose between -4 0 +4 degrees of camshaft timing. Choose 0, or straight up for best comprimise between TQ and HP, and most comfortable idle..

If you were willing to spend about 2k-2500, you could build an engine for it that COULD put you close to 300hp and 500 ft lbs with the right tune up.

hmmm ill have to see what i can come up with:D

[shawns 64 F100]

sounds like a nice buy, especially with the low miles. got tons of miles out of our modified cleveland :D

[PaleBlue90]

sounds like a nice buy, especially with the low miles. got tons of miles out of our modified cleveland :D

well im tryin to get the cash together. i want it so we will c

[Fordboy77']

im sorry ryan u and I are going to disagree on the 400 being built off the 351c everything I have ever read says 351 m :D I do agree the d60 or 70 is FAR more likelly in that truck

The 351m and the 400 are the same block, but were both based off of the 351c. Major difference is the decks about an inch taller on the 400s. but Cleveland heads bolt right up and offer great power gains.

[Warrlord]

As far as best mods bang for buck wise....

4bbl intake manifold with the 4 bbl carb of your choice that is between 620 and 650 CFM, matched with an exhaust setup that is less restrictive than stock, but still maintains some back pressure (not a huge exhaust). A cheap RV or Torque camshaft and lifters, and a timing chain and gear set that will let you choose between -4 0 +4 degrees of camshaft timing. Choose 0, or straight up for best comprimise between TQ and HP, and most comfortable idle..

If you were willing to spend about 2k-2500, you could build an engine for it that COULD put you close to 300hp and 500 ft lbs with the right tune up.

Yup, you can make some power out of those 400's. I built one for my buddy back in '91. It was what his '71 LTD came with. Here goes...........

1) '71 400 engine

2) '71 400 cyl heads with 3 angle v/job. Intake ports ported out to match intake gasket port size. Exhaust ports ported out to match Hooker header gaskets.

3) 12.5:1 351C pistons. These had a small dome made for the 351C quench heads. They yielded 11.2:1 compression in that engine. The wrist pin bore in the piston had to be machined out to fit the wrist pin for the 400 con rod, no worries, lots of meat on that piston.

4) Crane cam .503 lift, 259 degrees of duration at .050" lift.

5) Degreed cam, ended up at 2 degrees advanced with Cloyce true roller, double roll timing chain & gear set.

6) Hooker Super Comp Headers, 2.5" duals with crossover into Thrush turbo mufflers.

7) Mallory electronic distributor & module & coil.

8) Wiend open plenum intake (yes, they use to make one for the 400's). Ported intake ports to match the intake gasket.

9) Holley 750 cfm, double pumper, mechanical secondaries. Ended up with 72 jets in primaries & 75 in secondaries when it ran the best.

10) For his C6 trans, Fairbanks 2800 rpm stall converter, Fairbanks "PRO" shift kit.

11) 3.73:1 gears (had 2.97:1 stock).

I gotta tell ya, that was the fastest LTD I have ever driven. It was soooooo much fun smoking Mustangs, Camaros, etc back then & seeing the look on their faces when a tuna boat deluxe flies right by 'em. You know, a car that only old ladies drove back then :D

That guy moved to Tacoma about a year later. He said that thing ran even better there but he had to use racing fuel there or it would ping like crazy. At this altitude here , that compression ratio wasn't a concern with premium pump fuel.

GAWD! How I miss those good ole days! :(

[Burg460]

I love Larry's "back in the day" posts talking about engines... Thats awesome!! :D

[PaleBlue90]

Yup, you can make some power out of those 400's. I built one for my buddy back in '91. It was what his '71 LTD came with. Here goes...........

1) '71 400 engine

2) '71 400 cyl heads with 3 angle v/job. Intake ports ported out to match intake gasket port size. Exhaust ports ported out to match Hooker header gaskets.

3) 12.5:1 351C pistons. These had a small dome made for the 351C quench heads. They yielded 11.2:1 compression in that engine. The wrist pin bore in the piston had to be machined out to fit the wrist pin for the 400 con rod, no worries, lots of meat on that piston.

4) Crane cam .503 lift, 259 degrees of duration at .050" lift.

5) Degreed cam, ended up at 2 degrees advanced with Cloyce true roller, double roll timing chain & gear set.

6) Hooker Super Comp Headers, 2.5" duals with crossover into Thrush turbo mufflers.

7) Mallory electronic distributor & module & coil.

8) Wiend open plenum intake (yes, they use to make one for the 400's). Ported intake ports to match the intake gasket.

9) Holley 750 cfm, double pumper, mechanical secondaries. Ended up with 72 jets in primaries & 75 in secondaries when it ran the best.

10) For his C6 trans, Fairbanks 2800 rpm stall converter, Fairbanks "PRO" shift kit.

11) 3.73:1 gears (had 2.97:1 stock).

I gotta tell ya, that was the fastest LTD I have ever driven. It was soooooo much fun smoking Mustangs, Camaros, etc back then & seeing the look on their faces when a tuna boat deluxe flies right by 'em. You know, a car that only old ladies drove back then :D

That guy moved to Tacoma about a year later. He said that thing ran even better there but he had to use racing fuel there or it would ping like crazy. At this altitude here , that compression ratio wasn't a concern with premium pump fuel.

GAWD! How I miss those good ole days! :(

well damn! thats what ive always wanted to make fast! that sounds awesome:D

[shawns 64 F100]

A couple years back I remember reading an article in an "engine masters" magazine, they did budget builds for Detroit blocks, the ford was a 400 modified they built for about 2000 bucks to develop near 500 ft lbs tq and about 365 hp. before they tore it down it was about 95 hp from all of them years of use lol they had less than 2100 bucks and 80-90 % of that was cylinder head work

[Warrlord]

I love Larry's "back in the day" posts talking about engines... Thats awesome!!

I'm old & I like to reminisce about my fun days. ;)
It helps me keep the very little sanity I got, intact. Especially at the present time :D

well damn! thats what ive always wanted to make fast! that sounds awesome:D

That car got me hooked on "SLEEPERS". It just always tickled me when a grandpa or grandma mobile smoked a performance oriented car. I had a '72 LTD station wagon with a factory 429 in it & a builder 460 sitting on my garage floor. I wanted sooooo bad to build a 500 + cu in motor for that wagon. Never got around to it though :(

A couple years back I remember reading an article in an "engine masters" magazine, they did budget builds for Detroit blocks, the ford was a 400 modified they built for about 2000 bucks to develop near 500 ft lbs tq and about 365 hp. before they tore it down it was about 95 hp from all of them years of use lol they had less than 2100 bucks and 80-90 % of that was cylinder head work

I hear ya, that's actually cheap for that kind of hp. I owned a few 400's myself but I never did fix one up for myself. I was sure impressed with what can be done to 'em. The guy at the machine shop I used to use is the one that told me about the 351C pistons since they have the same distance from the center of the wrist pin bore to the top of the piston & then the pin bore to the bottom of the skirt. There were like only two piston manufacturers at that time that made high compression pistons for the 400 & they were expensive. You could buy the forged set my buddy got for the 351C, pay the machinist to bore the wrist pin holes for what almost just 4 pistons would cost for that 400.

Yup, head work is where it's at, especially on a Ford head (429CJ & SCJ not included, you could throw a cat through those intake ports). Never flow tested them 400 heads but if I had to guess, I'd say they were probably around 190-210 cfm?

[shawns 64 F100]

I'm old & I like to reminisce about my fun days. ;)
It helps me keep the very little sanity I got, intact. Especially at the present time :D



That car got me hooked on "SLEEPERS". It just always tickled me when a grandpa or grandma mobile smoked a performance oriented car. I had a '72 LTD station wagon with a factory 429 in it & a builder 460 sitting on my garage floor. I wanted sooooo bad to build a 500 + cu in motor for that wagon. Never got around to it though :(



I hear ya, that's actually cheap for that kind of hp. I owned a few 400's myself but I never did fix one up for myself. I was sure impressed with what can be done to 'em. The guy at the machine shop I used to use is the one that told me about the 351C pistons since they have the same distance from the center of the wrist pin bore to the top of the piston & then the pin bore to the bottom of the skirt. There were like only two piston manufacturers at that time that made high compression pistons for the 400 & they were expensive. You could buy the forged set my buddy got for the 351C, pay the machinist to bore the wrist pin holes for what almost just 4 pistons would cost for that 400.

Yup, head work is where it's at, especially on a Ford head (429CJ & SCJ not included, you could throw a cat through those intake ports). Never flow tested them 400 heads but if I had to guess, I'd say they were probably around 190-210 cfm?

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/challenge/0801em_engine_masters_challenge_thursday_updates/index.html Team #8 - MPG Heads Scott Main, Bob Moore Ford 404 Pull # Torque Horsepower 1 549 476.9 2 541 470.4 3 534 465.1 Avg. 541.3 470.8 Final Score - 2,499.1 @ 405 CI MPG heads came to the show with a Ford 400M/ CHI cylinder heads combination, an engine that showed tremendous potential last year prior to a disastrous camshaft failure. These seasoned competitors came prepared, and the mighty Ford delivered power to be reckoned with, showing over xxx lb-ft of peak torque. The score told the story, with a hair under 2500 points to take the lead position. CHI Heads are the shit

[PaleBlue90]

you guys have really got my head thinking :D

[Warrlord]

you guys have really got my head thinking :D

:pokeit:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Warrlord/Misc/burnout.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Warrlord/Misc/derisive.gif

[crawlin91]

wow you guys sure know your fords!:rolleyes:

[shawns 64 F100]

A huge argument over this engine is if it is or isnt a big block. I have always known it to be an "intermediate" block since it is a mix of big block and small block ideas. It has small block components, but big block bell housing bolt pattern. Interesting stuff, I dont know of any other engines like this one. I hear alot of BS from ppl about how much of a boat anchor they are. that just tells me they are FOS in the first place. If I was going to build a Truck for crawling or some other type of wheeling vehicle that will require a ton of tourque and on a budget, this is the engine I would use

[PaleBlue90]

A huge argument over this engine is if it is or isnt a big block. I have always known it to be an "intermediate" block since it is a mix of big block and small block ideas. It has small block components, but big block bell housing bolt pattern. Interesting stuff, I dont know of any other engines like this one. I hear alot of BS from ppl about how much of a boat anchor they are. that just tells me they are FOS in the first place. If I was going to build a Truck for crawling or some other type of wheeling vehicle that will require a ton of tourque and on a budget, this is the engine I would use

i agree.

[Fordboy77']

A huge argument over this engine is if it is or isnt a big block. I have always known it to be an "intermediate" block since it is a mix of big block and small block ideas. It has small block components, but big block bell housing bolt pattern. Interesting stuff, I dont know of any other engines like this one. I hear alot of BS from ppl about how much of a boat anchor they are. that just tells me they are FOS in the first place. If I was going to build a Truck for crawling or some other type of wheeling vehicle that will require a ton of tourque and on a budget, this is the engine I would use

makes sense to me

[Hypoid]

A huge argument over this engine is if it is or isnt a big block. I have always known it to be an "intermediate" block since it is a mix of big block and small block ideas. It has small block components, but big block bell housing bolt pattern.
Big block??? Small block??? That's Shiveespeek right thar!

Ford has engine families. The one in question has been designated as the 335 series.

http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/engine.html

I wish my "boat anchor" FE had a 4" stroke, but that's a lot of coin. :glasses10:

[shawns 64 F100]

Big block??? Small block??? That's Shiveespeek right thar!

Ford has engine families. The one in question has been designated as the 335 series.

http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/engine.html

I wish my "boat anchor" FE had a 4" stroke, but that's a lot of coin. :glasses10:

My 460 is definately a BIG BLOCK :D

[Hypoid]

Meh, just a fat ol' heifer of a 385 series. :D

[shawns 64 F100]

Just like them shhhheeeeeevy boys using ls1 and lsx and lt1 and whatever else they use? LS5, LS6, LS7...

[Hypoid]

That's just dem shiveee guys trying to show off dem countin' skillz, tryin' to look smart...like dem Ford guyzzzzzzzzzzz. :headbang:

:pokeit:

:whistle:

[Glass]

A guy I used to work with pointed this partial quote out to me once... "While many people call the 400 a bastard truck engine..." I still have people try to talk me into putting a 460 in my truck, even just last night. With the "luck" i have with the 400, and all of the BRUTAL abuse i have given my 400's, im a huge fan of them. I cant wait to build this 400 i am planning!!