Fuel Injection Swap ?

[ford_munky_man]

So, my friend is gettin an early 90 Bronco and is putting a 460 inplace of the seized engine. After he rips the 351 out I was going to put the FI stuff on my current 351. Talked to my shop teacher and he said that it should just go right on cause the heads will be the same, but if not I can switch them too. Anyway he said I will need the fuel lines and gas tank because of the fuel pumps. So my question is, can't I just use same tank and lines and just install inline fuel pumps to cure this. I know i need a low pressure and a high pressure just don't know where. So if anyone can help please do.

[Hypoid]

Hmmm...swap out an engineered system, or make another system with some existing parts and hope it performs as well as the engineered system.

Didn't we just re-invent the wheel with your suspension swap in the F-100???

One vote for the teacher.

BTW, you never did a follow up after putting the truck on the alignment rack. How did your caster angle come out? Pinion angle?

[bronc_17113]

take everything u can from the donor rig

[Glass]

The fuel injection setup will need a return line to the fuel tank ..... alot of dumb fabrication that is unnecessary if you dont get the original tank and lines off of the bronco.

If you are seriously considering fuel injection, i would go with something besides a stock fuel injection off of another ford engine.... It is going to be a pain in the ass..... you will need to swap most of the electronics and wiring out, make sure you have the right computer, and a whole lot of other things just to get it to run OKish.....

There are a few companies who make "universal" throttle body fuel injection kits, and i would recommend buying one of them instead because unlike stock ford FI, they are fully programable... Meaning you can tune it to your current setup, and if you make any engine changes such as camshaft, heads, compression ratio, you decide to add some boost form a turbo or supercharger etc... you can program for it instead of having to have a custom one off chip made for the computer.

trust me when i say there is ALOT more involved than just needing the stock tank and fuel lines lol.... :thumbsup:

[ford_munky_man]

Ya I know what is involved with the swap. And I am up for it. But taking the lines and the tank is out of the option, my friend will be using them for his set up. My teacher is a pretty knowledgable guy and I think with his help we can get it to work. I am thinking that I am going to run two in line fuel pumps as close to tank as possible, that is how my buddy did his '55 with that stock tank and a FI 302.

And with the 100 still haven't got it to the shop yet to check anything. The specs in the comp only go back to 83 so we will have to put in all the specs for it too. We are looking for a book with them in it.

[bronc_17113]

if you know whats involved with the swap then why did you ask

[ford_munky_man]

What I was wondering is which order the fuel pumps went in. That is the part I was unsure about. I know how tough and what not the wiring and stuff will be but between the three of us (teacher me friend) we can probably get it done. Just wanted to know about the pumps.

[Glass]

Ya I know what is involved with the swap. And I am up for it. But taking the lines and the tank is out of the option, my friend will be using them for his set up. My teacher is a pretty knowledgable guy and I think with his help we can get it to work. I am thinking that I am going to run two in line fuel pumps as close to tank as possible, that is how my buddy did his '55 with that stock tank and a FI 302.

And with the 100 still haven't got it to the shop yet to check anything. The specs in the comp only go back to 83 so we will have to put in all the specs for it too. We are looking for a book with them in it.

Just remember, there are a million ways to make something work, but there is only one way to do something right. Good luck with the swap.

[Glass]

I dont want to be a complete dick, so here is a resource for you. Information and resources are worth their weight in gold when you are doing a swap like this, so make sure you fully understand every aspect of this swap before you start on it, and it will go along alot better than if you are depending on tapping into your friend and teachers knowledge to get this swap done.

Its pretty easy to find eager bodies to help you take on a project, but when the swap is finished, and you have a problem , you need to be able to diagnose it and fix it with as little effort as possible.

I would recommend building the fuel delivery system, and installing the electronics as close to a "stock setup" as possible, that way when it comes to troubleshooting and repair you can follow a guide or routine for another vehicle that is already produced...

Build what you want to build, but keep it as simple or uniform as you can so you dont end up getting so pissed off with it that you give up on it or get fed up with it and put it on hold...



My favorite quote from this site so far is " If you are upgrading dont re-buy brackets you already have unless you are adding high performance aftermarket chrome stuff." :D

[ford_munky_man]

Ya, the only thing that isn't going to be stock on it is the fuel pumps. The rest is all coming off of the donor engine. That is stock as well. Just going to use the whole engine/computer harness and maybe replace the sensors with the ones off the donor engine.

[Digger]

Don't worry about the pumps. All the stock EFI system needs to run right, fuel system-wise, is the proper fuel pressure and flow rate at the rail. This can be accomplished by a single high pressure pump. Ford use to use a two pump system and then they wised up and went with a single high-pressure pump system.

If you are set on a two pump system, you will need a low pressure electric pump, similar to what you use for a carbed engine, near the tank as the primary pump. That will feed into the secondary high pressure pump. You will also need a return and vent line going back to the tank.

[ford_munky_man]

No I would rather just do one. And my friend did this for his only with tbi and he just did return line ran to the vent valve on the fuel fill neck.

[ford_munky_man]

Ok, called a wrecking yard today in Billings, MT. They just got a 93 Ford Bronco, so the guy is going to call me back tomorrow on the specs to see if it is a 5.8 like I want. So I pretty much have a donor Bronc lined up that I can steal all of the FI stuff off of plus the tanks and lines. So there is an update of what is happening. If it is what I need and not a lot of $ then I will most likely be getting it this weekend.

[ford_munky_man]

Ok new update. Now instead of the 302 I have a 460 and Zf5 to fit nicely between the framerails. Ok in the last 3 hours I have the motor ready to pull out. Got the whole harness undone and out of the way and all the bolts from the bellhousing out. The radiator and fan are out along with all the a/c stuff disconnected. Exhaust is soaking in pb blaster and the starter is out. So it is ready to come out (besides those bolts.) Tommorrow will be the engine out and the tranny and t-case dropped then it will be ready for the 460 and company to slip in. Monday the motor mounts I orderd from JBG will be in. Due to me beign gone next Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday it will have to wait till Thursday to be in completely. So that is the news as of 20 min ago.

[bronc_17113]

so what was wrong with the 302?

[ford_munky_man]

Nothing wrong with it. Mike and me went half in half cause he wanted to put the 460 in his but then we decided instead of removing 2 engines in and hooking up 2 other engines, we would just remove 1 (mine) and put in the 460. And his was so nice the way it was we didn't want to chop it up and hack the wires to death. So instead of him giving me 400 for my half and leaving me to find something else, he gave me the 460, tranny and t-case.

[bronc_17113]

Pm me a price if you want to get rid of the 302 I may be interested if its worth my drive

[ford_munky_man]

the 302 is in his bronco and he is keeping that. I have the 351 still but I am not sure if I want to sell that yet or not. But if it is for a fair amount I may.

[bronc_17113]

no need for a 351 whatsoever

[ford_munky_man]

Ok lol. I kinda want to keep it and built it up for something later. Like another project.

[ford_munky_man]

Ok Latest news. The engine is out and so is the tranny and t-case. So now just waitin on the motor mounts. Got it all out in the last two nights with about 3 hours a night. So we did pretty good. Everything is ready to go in! :thumbsup:

[ford_munky_man]

Ok here is some pix of the progress:

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=233

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=234

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=236

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=239

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=240

Just need adapt the harness for my gages and stuff and finish puttin th tranny together then it all ready to go!

[Hypoid]

Ahhhh, poor lil' Bronco! It's gonna need new springs now.

[ford_munky_man]

Ya it is. That thing is going to sit pretty low in the front. When we get it mounted good I will take a picture of how it sits. It also has bout 300# of tranny and t-case in the back.

[ford_munky_man]

Here is the latest on the swap. Just got back to school and tore out the other harness and comp from under dash and started weeding through the new one to get rid of what we don't need and relocate everything we keeping. Here is a pic of the old (left) and new (right):

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=250

[ford_munky_man]

Been weeding through the wiring some more and splicing and extending the harness So few more wires tomorrow and then we can mount that in stock position and then hook it all up. Also through on some 33's on there have a pic up later tonight.

[Burg460]

Looks good!!! I love wiring, most people hate it. Then again, I like a good challenge. That Bronc should scoot pretty good with that big block. :D :thumbsup:

[ford_munky_man]

Ya I am excited. Right now I am not sure if I like it or dont yet. It hasn't been a PITA yet but just a little tedious to splice, strip and solder over and over. LOL.

Here is the pic w/ 33's we installed at the end of the day.

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=265

[ford_munky_man]

Got the extended wiring done. Mounted in stock spot and a lot of stuff routed such as MAP sensor and a power wire to pos side of start solenoid. Need to hook up ignition wires and a hot wire to a fusible link.

[ford_munky_man]

Ok got the engine set into the seats on the mounts. So it is in its home now where it is going to say. Also I got a few grounds hooked up and the ignition wires have been hooked up. Along with a few other plugs and hot wires. The tranny is going in tomorrow when we get it on the lift. Here are a few pics of the BBK in its comfy home:

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=268

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=269

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=270

Not a lot left (I hope) and should be done here in the next week or two! I am getting super excited!!

[ford_munky_man]

Now that the engine is in place we put in the tranny and got it mostly bolted up. Here what it looks like:

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=272

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=273

[bronc_17113]

lookin good man i cant wait to hear how it works out for ya

[ford_munky_man]

Ya me too. I am gettin excited as it gets a little closer everyday! :D

[ford_munky_man]

Tomorrow we are going to check spark and see if we can get it to crank while we wait on some pumps. Got the x-member in there and it need a little bit of modifying. Here what it looks like:

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=274

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=276

All is going good so far!

[ford_munky_man]

Ok so a few more updates from last time. The transfer case is on. I went to the local boneyard and got me a tank and pump off of an 85 BKO with a FI 302 in it. So everything matched up perfect and I still got a 33 gallon tank! Well today I got it installed and the pump and all the lines and then the wires hooked up to where they need to be. Also, before that, we got the beast started!!!!! =D So it runs and sounds pretty cool. We just cranked it and sprayed some starter fluid in the intake and got it to run for few seconds but it was a good few seconds!! After the tank and stuff is in all we got left is the accesories to attach. (i.e. Radiator, air cleaner set up, rear driveline, fan, and the clutch pedal assembly). SO CLOSE!!!! :thumbsup:

[bronc_17113]

so you can pull gas tanks at the junkyards in wyo? If you come across a 96 bronco with a good tank I would happily come up and pay you a lil for your time if it is convenient for ya. Has to be a 96 bronco specificaly though.

[ford_munky_man]

Ya why not? Can you not pull them down there? And I will look. All he has here in Worland is 80-86's. But I may be going up to ontana in a couple weeks for a swap meet and if none there I know a great wrecking yard that has a bunch of stuff. But I don't have any problem gettin one for ya.

[Glass]

First thing they do at the yards around here is remove all the fluids, which usually is done by putting a hole in the gas tank, trans pan, and oil pan with a pick axe, and by cutting the lower rad hose...

Keep working on the truck man, ittl be worth it when you are finished. The better work you do now, the easier it will be to take care of the truck later. Dont cut any corners!!!

[ford_munky_man]

Well that isn't cool. Ya when we dropped this tank it was plum near full. We dumped about half of it out so we could actually carry it but kept as much as we could to use. Given it was 3 year old gas, but my '71 will burn anything! :thumbsup:

And don't worry no corners have been cut. I am going all out and even got the factory looking inline fuel filter and all the hoses and shit. Everything is beind done right so this will be one of the baddest BKO's in my area!

[bronc_17113]

thing is gonna be sweet when u are done now u just need a d60 front end

[ford_munky_man]

Haha maybe, I am thinking bout gettin me an early Bronco like 70's. And then drop in that 351 I got after I build it up a bit.

[ford_munky_man]

Ok fuel system bugs are all filtered out and it starts and runs on its own. We ran into a few problems with a short by the pump that kept burning up fusible links. But she has 42 psi exactly at the rail. Tomorrow and maybe the next day will be the final days of working on it and she shall be done! :thumbsup:

[bronc_17113]

good shit man i admire your dedication to your projects

[ford_munky_man]

Why thank you kind sir! The only real thing holding me back is exhaust. It'll be loud so I may not be able to drive it on the street for a while till I can pony up some cash for one. Which sux...

[ford_munky_man]

Well all is done, got all the rats nest wiring taped up and looking good, air box and radiator is in along with everything else the only thing left is to have a rear shaft made and get some spacers for the tranny so it sits a little more level cause w/o some the fan hits the shroud and the motor sits back a lil much. Oh and a clutch pedal assembly and stuff.

[bronc_17113]

k next im droppin my bronco off for ya to do :D

[ford_munky_man]

Hey sounds like a plan, I actually love doing this kind of stuff if it weren't so far away I would help you guys out. If you really feel like it I would do your stuff if you would drop it off! :thumbsup:

[bronc_17113]

lol I dont have the money at the moment but I may just have to make a trip north sometime to check out the truck

[ford_munky_man]

That would be cool, maybe head out on a run too. Well the driveline will be done tomorrow and we got the pedals and master/slave cylinder today and tomorrow they are getting mounted and than she is ready to hit the road and trails!!!!

[bronc_17113]

prolly not im fixin to take insurance off of three of my trucks to free up some money but if ur a fisherman i like that

[Glass]

im fixin to take insurance off of three of my trucks \

now youll really have to watch out for those tractor-trailers man!!!!:rolleyes:

Munkey man, can you install phone books on drivers seats???

[Hypoid]

now youll really have to watch out for those tractor-trailers man!!!!:rolleyes:

Munkey man, can you install phone books on drivers seats???
LMAO!!! I TOLD him it was too much lift!!!

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/Misc%20stuff/cdf80ad2.jpg

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/Misc%20stuff/b5d56e7e.jpg

[ford_munky_man]

prolly not im fixin to take insurance off of three of my trucks to free up some money but if ur a fisherman i like that

Ya I love to fish and camp. We have a few places up here. And you can ride with me for a ride or I got 2 rigs and you can play with one.

now youll really have to watch out for those tractor-trailers man!!!!:rolleyes:

Munkey man, can you install phone books on drivers seats???

It can be done! Let me check my schedule.....Ya I am open for any time! LOL

[bronc_17113]

Well depending on the camp location I am still driving 4wds just not one I am willing to bang up. the bronco is not going anywhere nor are the others I just have to cut cost where I can at the moment.

[ford_munky_man]

Ya understandable. Where I fish there isn't anything that would bang something up. The worst at one place is some water crossings, but that is only if you wanna go way high into the canyon.

[ford_munky_man]

Well she is home. I have to wait for a conversion u-joint for the rear shaft but i have been driving around with my front wheels for lil trips. It is doing pretty good. All runs well.