Headers

[ford_munky_man]

Just ordered some headers for my truck. Was wondering if I needed to do anything with the starter, like maybe see if there is a compact one, heard someone on another forum say they had to get one cause it was in the way. I orderd the DynoMax Blackjack headers for the 390. So if any one knows anything please inform me lol. Thanks.

[Warrlord]

Back in the day, I put Blackjack headers on my truck with 390. The starter didn't interfere with the headers but it was close, about an inch of room. I made a heat shield out of scrap sheet metal. It musta worked good cause I never had to replace the starter. Even if you get a smaller diameter starter, it'd be good idea to make a heat shield.

[ford_munky_man]

Ya, how did you do that? just bend sheet metal and put it into place? How bout that exhaust wrap? Wouldn't that work too? And thats good, I don't want to do major work to make them fit. They didn't have no other clearence issues?

[Hunter]

I do not recomend headers. They leak, and they will have to be removed if you need to replace the starter. They are a very time consuming investment.:twocents:

[ford_munky_man]

What do you mean they leak? Everyone who has ran them that I know has had no problem with them.

[mattadams]

I put headers on both my F-150's (98 and 00 though, not that old). The performance increase was really good but if you get cheapies, they are known to leak around the gasket. Heath did headers on his explorer and they were ford racing parts, and we could never get them to stop leaking even though we replaced the gaskets at least once. Pain in the arse. Assuming they don't leak though they were one of hte most noticeable differences in horsepower I ever did to any of my vehicles.

[Warrlord]

If you spend the $$ on good quality header & collector gaskets, you won't have any leaks. The gaskets that come with headers like Blackjack are below par for a lasting seal. Just bite the money bullet & get good ones from the get go like..........

http://www.jegs.com/p/Percy%27s/744841/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/p/Percy%27s/744839/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/p/Mr.+Gasket/744835/10002/-1

I never had a problem once I went to the aluminum or copper gaskets.


I agree with Matt, headers are a good, cost effective performance increase. But, if they leak every couple of months, they don't seem worth it.

Matt, before I bought headers for my Ranger, I looked at several different brands & found the JBA's are great quality especially with the 3/8" thick flange that bolts to the cyl head. That, along with the aluminum gaskets might be why my 4.0 headers haven't leaked & have been on since '02. Of course the JBA's were very pricey but worth it in the long run I think. Most other 4.0 headers including the Ford Racing headers have a 1/4" thick or less flange & are more likely to warp when bolted to the cyl head...........that's why I dislike the paper/fiber header gaskets.

[ford_munky_man]

Ya, whats pricey? I paid about 160 for mine. And I guess I can look into some gaskets.

[mattadams]

yeah I had JBA's on both of my F-150's, I was really impressed with them. I honestly don't recall what I paid but I want to say its around $400-450 per set... but headers for older engines were always cheaper because they aren't quiite as "tricky" at least from what I could tell so tough to tell. Agreed, spend some money on some good gaskets... they are a pain enough to swap out you don't want ot have to do it twice.

[Warrlord]

yeah I had JBA's on both of my F-150's, I was really impressed with them. I honestly don't recall what I paid but I want to say its around $400-450 per set... but headers for older engines were always cheaper because they aren't quiite as "tricky" at least from what I could tell so tough to tell. Agreed, spend some money on some good gaskets... they are a pain enough to swap out you don't want ot have to do it twice.

That's what I paid for mine too. Pricey?...............Yup, you bet but so far it's been worth it. Hell even back in the 80's there were a couple cars I bought Hooker Super Comp Headers for & they were over $400 even back then & they were also a night & day difference between the regular line of Hookers, & Blackjack, & Cyclone, Doug Thorley, Heddman, etc.

Munky, $160 sounds pretty fair these days for Blackjack, they averaged around $85 for a SB Chevy or SB Ford 25+ years ago & around $110 for an FE in a Ford truck.

[ford_munky_man]

Cool, I know they're not top of the line but I have limited budget and I get what I can afford that is going to work good.

[Warrlord]

Cool, I know they're not top of the line but I have limited budget and I get what I can afford that is going to work good.

I ran Blackjack & Cyclone back in the day on quite a few vehicles & always liked 'em once I figured about the "good gaskets". They never rusted through or anything. The main reason I went with the pricey JBA's for my Ranger was because out of the other two brands available, I read bunches of complaints about them leaking at the collector where the tubes are welded into it. The JBA's came with a "Y" pipe that has tapered flanges like a factory exhaust manifold so no tubes welded into a collector. I heard nothing but praise about the JBA's for my application so that figured into my current train of thought which is.................I'm too old to be farting around with header swaps to see what works best. It wasn't a big deal in the 80's, I was younger & full of piss & vinegar :D

[ford_munky_man]

Ya, I don't quite have the money yet for gaskets for the block or collector, so maybe I'll just run till they leak and then change. I have nothing better to do anyway! Except the misses gets mad everytime I want to work on it, so she, besides the money, is the only thing standing in my way sometimes. lol

[Warrlord]

Except the misses gets mad everytime I want to work on it

:laughing3: I understand that, I went through several girlfreinds back in the day. It It seems like all I ever heard out of them was the same thing, "You like your cars more than you like me, don't you?"

My answer was, "Well, they don't bitch at me. When they're sick, all I gotta do is replace a part. When they're mad at me, I don't have to kiss their ass for two weeks so they're not mad any more, I just have to adjust the timing & the carburator."

[ford_munky_man]

:laughing3: I understand that, I went through several girlfreinds back in the day. It It seems like all I ever heard out of them was the same thing, "You like your cars more than you like me, don't you?"

My answer was, "Well, they don't bitch at me. When they're sick, all I gotta do is replace a part. When they're mad at me, I don't have to kiss their ass for two weeks so they're not mad any more, I just have to adjust the timing & the carburator."

that is exactly how it is too! She gets mad when I say I want to drive it cause I need to go work on it but when I do she like thats all you ever want to do! And ya it drives me crazy! And I agree with your saying! haha :thumbsup:

[BLOODBANE]

When I first did the swap on my Ranger I tried to use the stock, bigger style starter and it hit the header and made it go into constant crank mode. I used a mid 90's starter, but for your application I don't know if thats possible. The other thing is, like Larry said, a heat shield or even header wrap(looks like a ace bandage made for headers). There is a lot of heat down there and it doesn't take long to cook a starter. I run the header wrap around my starter and it seems to work fairly well. I still have to replace starters every now and then, but more often if I don't wrap them.

[bronc_17113]

. It wasn't a big deal in the 80's, I was younger & full of piss & vinegar :D

What do u mean was ur still full of piss and vinegar :D

[Hypoid]

What do u mean was ur still full of piss and vinegar :D
That's 2 out of 3! LOL

Post pics when you get them in place. I've seen a couple different styles: One for the F-250 4x that splits to go around the passenger side mount, and one for the F-100 4x that clears the perch like the 2x truck headers.

[ford_munky_man]

Ya, I'll get some wrap here some time soon. But the headers should be coming here middle of next week. So ya, when I get them in place I'll post some pics of how it went.

[ford_munky_man]

Headers will be here tomorrow. I have got the end of the week off and I'll be putting them in then. So should have pics by friday night!

[mattadams]

take your time, don't rush the install or take shortcuts.

[ford_munky_man]

Ya, I have all day thursday and friday off plus the weekend, so I am not short on time. So it will be done and done right (I hope, lol). But I'll get a pic of the new ones today as they get off of the UPS truck! lol but they won't be installed till thursday or friday.

[ford_munky_man]

Here is a pic of the headers, they just come in today!

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=17&pictureid=124

Looks like the passenger one is going around the engine mount. Not sure till I get there to mount them. But looks like a fun install! :rolleyes:

[Tilt168]

headers are great, i dont see why everyone is saying they are so hard to install...i thought they were one of the easiest things to do, as long as you have enough room to do the work....good pick up!

[ford_munky_man]

They look like one of the easier things to do. The toughest thing I think would be unbolting the motor mount and fittin it all around it. But I am excited. They were pretty good priced and I have heard a lot of good word about these. So hopefully it will be fun!

[Hypoid]

I've heard the passeneger side is a biotch. I'm thinking that if you loosen the DS engine mount, the tranny mount, and remove the passenger side mount, you should be able to rock the engine enough to install without removing much more stuff. I saw a set in the JY that someone had hacked the center portion of the flange off. :(

A guy on one of the FE forums has a set for his F-100 4x4 that look like the 2wd headers. They tuck behind the mount.

I never put headers on mine, that is why I'm interested in how yours come out. I'm interested in where the collectors line up also.

[mattadams]

yeah the older engine compartments definately give you more room then the modern ones for working on headers. One of my only concerns would be the existing manifold studs, whether they are rusted on tight or not. Might be worth starting to spray them with some PB Blaster several days ahead of time to start loosening them up so you don't snap them off or anything.

[ford_munky_man]

What is the problem in cutting that portion of the flange off? And, looks like you can do that to these if need, there are little slits in them start almost half way through, what are this for, if not that?

And thanks for the tip, that actually struck my mind last night before I dozed off I going to run over there and spray them down real quick.

[ford_munky_man]

Also, I was browsing around for some header wrap, and I came across a wrap for the starter. I think that might work better and be easier. It is also cheaper.

[ford_munky_man]

Got the headers in today. Only bout 3 1/2 hours or so, give or take bout 10 min. IT was pretty fun.

I've heard the passeneger side is a biotch.

Passenger side was the easier side actually! Surprised me! LOL. But here is some results:

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=20&pictureid=143

http://www.rmftc.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=20&pictureid=138

I also have a album on my profile with some more pics if you all want to check them out. Shows a lot of the instillation that I could get.

[Warrlord]

Nice job :thumbsup: it's coming right along

[ford_munky_man]

Ya, once I get the muffler got to get it to the exhaust shop to get me one built. Then the exhaust is done. How much hp you think that those headers got me? Then a Flowmaster Super 44 muffler. The pipe will be 3" from headers to muffler, then 2.5" from muffler back.

[Warrlord]

The pipe will be 3" from headers to muffler, then 2.5" from muffler back.

Actually, it would be more beneficial to do it the other way around. 2.25" or 2.50" from the headers to the muffler (connecting to a "Y" then into a short 3" pipe going into the muffler), then a single 3" pipe from the muffler on back. On a 4x4, the less exhaust pipes you have, the less there is to get banged up. Unless you're going to be running a big cubic inch, performance oriented & built engine that makes it's hp & torque in the high rpm ranges (I'm talking 5000 rpm & beyond), it wouldn't benefit from large diameter exhaust right off of the headers. In fact, that would cause a low rpm torque loss.

The hp you gained depends on how much you had to begin with, how restricted was the previous exhaust. generally, a stock engine with stock exhaust sees only about an average of 20-30 hp which is not a, "OMG, what a difference." the more the engine was built for performance before a header install the more the hp increase would be. The great thing about the headers are........................once you start doing things to your engine to increase intake flow & cylinder pressure like, a performance intake, bigger cfm carb, higher lift & longer duration on the camshaft, raising the compression ratio, porting the heads, etc, the resulting increased exhaust flow from the cyl heads now have a better, less obstructed escape route.

[ford_munky_man]

Hmm...never looked at it that way. I could do that, but I want a dual exhaust. How will this affect it? Or should I stick to single exhaust, although I really do like duals? And, so far it is only stock on everything else that I know of, but I havnet torn apart the engine and it may be bored over from the previous owner.

[Warrlord]

If you want duals....................get duals, it's your truck & you gotta build it the way you want to. If you get duals, personally, I wouldn't go more than 2.5" on each pipe from the headers all the way back.

[ford_munky_man]

Well, I was just asking for like performance reasons. So could I still do 2.5's from the headers then Y into a 3" then go to dual 2.5" exits? Either way I just want the best set-up for like best performance and stuff. But ya, that is what I am doing I think.

[Glass]

Exhaust should be made how you want it to be on your truck. I got sick of my duals... and did this...


http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/12/l_94760730a4e04ae79ec64aa57f829229.jpg

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/45/l_5c8476fed46a4fd8b31cbd0ac0beef10.jpg

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/7/l_52b86cb769aa403e98b36593592827ad.jpg

This only shows when i had part of it laid out, i finished it with a 3" RV series flowmaster, and then a "tailpipe" with a 45 that dumps right above the rear diff housing.

For a truck that is actually going to be used on trails... like yours.... it would probably be better to stay above the crossmember instead of below it like i chose to do.

Doing the single 3" like this was nice because it left me a ton of room for my fuel lines and pump and filter along the inner driver side frame rail, and also keeps heat away form the fuel lines.

it was half the work, half the cost, and only had to buy one muffles instead of 2... which is nice when they are 100+ each.

[ford_munky_man]

Ya, I planned to stay above the crossmember initially. I only have room for on pipe to run through there. And they headers came with 2.5" reducers. So I think just go 2.5 from headers to Y pipe then into a 3" then to muffler, then after muffler go 2.5 in either dual or single. How that sound? LOL

[Hypoid]

I think the old-timers at the FE forum say 2-1/4, 2-1/2 max for dual pipes. I have 3" for a single exhaust stuck in my brain for some reason.

I'm drawing a blank for collector length. Maybe we both should do a search. LOL

[Glass]

I think the old-timers at the FE forum say 2-1/4, 2-1/2 max for dual pipes. I have 3" for a single exhaust stuck in my brain for some reason.

I'm drawing a blank for collector length. Maybe we both should do a search. LOL


2"-2 1/4" for dual is MORE than enough. 3" single form the collectors back on full length headers is just as good as 2-2 1/4" duals.

[Hypoid]

Yeah, that's the gist. More is NOT better. They start using big words like "velocity" and such. I'm still running logs because I'm too cheap for headers.

[ford_munky_man]

Well they are full length headers, not sure of collector length, maybe I'll get a measurement. What I am just wondering is what I should run from the collectors to the muffler? And then after? Cause I know I am going to have to go to a Y-pipe right after the headers and have a single pipe going through the crossmember, cause there is only room for one or two really small pipes. Maybe I will get a pic of that when I get measurements.

[Hypoid]

Here is a good read... http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/404883-3-single-or-2-1-2-dual-exhaust.html

I thought this was pretty slick: http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displayimage.php?photoid=79912&width=2

[mattadams]

Well, if it helps I think I went through 4 or 5 different exhaust systems on my old truck. If I remember right the one I settled on that I liked the most was 2 1/2" pipes from the headers to the muffler and 2 1/2" back from there to the tips. I think I had 3 or maybe 3 1/2" tips but the rest of the exhaust was 2 1/2". The muffler I liked the most was the IMCO muffler... man did that thing rumble... but not annoyingly loud (at least not annoying to me, LOL)

[ford_munky_man]

Hyp, I really like that cross member. That was a real neat idea. I will prolly go and see if I can figure something like that up, but not sure if it would want to clear driveshaft etc. on the drivers side, but maybe clear some room on the passenger. Those links helped a lot.

And matt, Did you run a Y pipe to the muffler or left them duals from the headers back? I was reading somewhere that you need the banks to equalize out for best performance, and that running Y pipe would do that. But if you just run it to a single muffler instead of duals, wouldn't that do the same thing?

[mattadams]

Dang, now I'm trying to remember how I did that... I know from the headers I used the stock pipes because they had the O2 sensor inlets and everything... but replaced the catalytic convertors with free-flows (not a benficial upgrade, at least on my truck) but trying to remember how they came together, I know there was only one pipe coming in to the muffler...
http://mattstruck.com/imco2.jpg

[ford_munky_man]

So, come to a Y pipe then after the headers? Should I use the same diameter pipe for the Y or go into a bigger one since there is more exhaust gases coming into the one pipe from two? And I have no O2 sensors or any cats, so that is not a problem.