Ball joint questions (if theres any wizards in the group) :)

[mattadams]

Greetings!
in a few weeks I am going to be tearing apart my truck to install a skyjacker 6" suspension lift. My truck is a 2000 F-150 with about 110,000 miles on it. Here's my questions.
How long do ball joints typically last?
I was thinking of going ahead and replacing the ball joints even though they aren't bad yet, would that be a good idea, sine everything will be apart already?
I've noticed Ford doesnt' sell upper ball joints, they only sell the entire control arm that includes the ball joint... but I am looking at Moog and they seem to make an upper ball joint as well as a lower ball joint... so why doesn't Ford want the upper changed out? Would going to a completely new control arm be a better idea rather then just replacing that ball joint? I already am planning on replacing the control arm bushings (upper and lower) with energy suspension bushings, whether I get a new control arm or not.
Any special tips for changing out the ball joints? I will probably be utilizing hte "loan-a-tool" program unless they arent' very expensive in which case I'll just buy it and hope I dont need it later :).

[clavos]

Not to sure on your truck Matt, but as a general rule of thumb, if you have it all torn apart anyway you might as well replace everything that is replacable. I need to do mine as well. The Ford balljoints for the superduty are not greaseable and wear out quickly, but all aftermarket replacements are. Go figure.

[mattadams]

yeah I definately think I am going to try to replace them. Only bitch is Ford is really weird with their balljoints. Apparently Ford only sells the entire upper arm, which I dont need, I just need the balljoint... trying to get a straight answer from any local shop is like pulling teeth... one says Moog makes a ball joint but you have to use their upper a-arm before you can upgrade... other people have said that the moog just presses in there, yada yada, long story short I dont knwo what the hell is going on LOL.

[Tray]

Sounds like a call to Moog is in order.

I'd replace it if I were there. One less thing to worry about as your rig starts to age.

Of course Ford is going to want to you buy all new. Kind of like when I was asking some questions about seat bases, they wanted me to buy a new pair of buckets, rather than the parts I need, even when I knew they were available seperately.

[clavos]

Check with Napa, that seems to be the general concensus on where to buy them for the SD.

[mattadams]

Well I think I finally figured it out once I looked at Moog's Catalog enough!
Here's what I've found...
For the upper ball joints, Moog makes a control arm/ball joint, as well as a plain ball joint. However, the upper ball joint they make will only fit their control arm, so you have to replace the control arm first, then if THAT ball joint goes bad it can be replaced without replacing the entire arm, but you can't put a Moog ball joint into a stock control arm.
Moog also makes a lower ball joint that is a direct swap in. So, in other words, looks like I'll be getting some new control arms for the upper, and new ball joints fo rhte lower... now just have to figure out the cheapest place to get em... I'll just do this when I'm doing the suspension kit...
The weird part is the MOog control arm costs about $65 per side. The Ford control arm costs about $80, isn't greasable, and doesn't appear to be as "heavy duty". Decision seems pretty straight forward to me! :).
Holy cow, with new ball joints, new control arm bushings, new upper control arms, new body mount bushings, new tie rod bushings, new rear leafs, new shocks all around, I bet this baby will ride like a dream... at least I can hope! LOL.

The reasoning behind doing it this way, of course, is that the "job" of getting to the ball joints is extremely tedious. Lots of stuff to take off in order to get there. However, because of hte suspension lift, much of this work will already have been done just to get to the suspension components needed.
When something is easy to do, then why not do it? :). Or as Homer said when giving advice to Bart, "If something is hard then it isn't worth doing!"

[y33dave]

Matt !

how'd the arm/bushing/ball joint replacement job go?

I'm trying to figure out what would be the most cost effective - and 'correct' thing to do to my truck.

as you probably saw .. when I got my tires today ..they were checking my alignment and told me it was time for new ball joints.. which I beleive after seeing the movement they were getting out of the front end .. and the noises I was hearing a few months back..

anywho .. just wondering how big of a job it was to redo the arms with the joints .. or if I should just to the Moog ball joints alone?

Orrrr .. have a shop do them for me ?

whatcha think?

Dave

[mattadams]

Did they say new upper and lower, just upper, just lower, or what?
Honestly it's hard to judge because when we did the ball joints, we were taking everything apart for the lift anyways... so I'm not sure how much of that work could be spared if you were just doing the ball joints. The uppers are pretty easy, you could almost do them without dismantling too much. The lowers are tougher. A lot more stuff you have to do :(

[y33dave]

well of course they said it was the lowers .. but couldn't make a decision on the uppers until they got in there and really pulled it all apart

$500 to do the bottoms
$700 to do both

ugh either way!

[mattadams]

weren't you talking about doing a suspension lift? :). Propose to your wife that doing the lift AND the ball joints at the same time, the labor ont he ball joints is free! :).
The lowers are harder, because you have to break loose the torsion bars, which you need a special tool for. You have to pretty much disassemble the front end right down to the CV Joints, so you can get the torsion bar out, get the spindle loose from the lower control arm, etc.

[y33dave]

awwwwwwwwwwww CRAP!

that's kind of what I was afraid of !

damned forsaken TRUCK !! LOL - I love her but jeesus .. I'm tired of every freaking 'fix' costing me $500 !!

if I didn't just put tires on it today - I'd think about a lift .. but I think I just wanna fix what I have - drive it for another year or so - and then get a newer one ... with some of my wish list already done to it!

too bad I gotta keep dumping money into this one .. i'll never be able to afford a newer one! grrrrrrrr :evil:

[y33dave]

*UPDATE*

I went to another 'shop' today and got a second opinion..

the put the SCrew up on the lift - brought me out to the shop and showed me that there is aBsolutely NO Play in the ball joints... however - there was a little bit of play in the idler arm connections - nothing serious - but he told me I'd eventually want to switch that arm out which is about a 1/2 hour job ... and a $30 part !

As I'm releived ... I am also PISSED!! That damned tire shop already got $700 outta me for tires... why they had to try to milk me for more money when I didn't need the work done .. is totally beyond me!

grrrr
:shock:
and
:beer:
YAAAAY all at the same time!


Dave

[clavos]

It's illegal for them to tell you that parts are needed when they are not. Too bad it comes down to one shops word against another to determine if the repairs are necisary. It is always good to get a second opinion. I would stick with the shop that gave you the honest opinion for future repairs as they seem to want you for a long term customer rather than a quick soaking.